What did Religious Authoritarian Parenting experts promise? And when do the children who grew up in such homes get to talk honestly about their experience?
I can feel how hard it is to think about some of these questions (and the taboo against answering them in a semi-public space). For me, I have a very strained relationship with my parents currently in part because they really want to "agree to disagree" about things like rights for trans people in order to have a relationship. When in childhood, of course, I was never allowed to agree to disagree.
My parents would love to have a surface-level relationship with me but unfortunately I have had access to all of their conservative political views non-stop for almost 4 decades. I understand their worldview completely and intimately, and I don't respect it at all.
Yes! This. My parents want a surface-level relationship with me too. Actually they want deeper, but are afraid to ask me questions to protect their vision of me that they already know is wrong. And unfortunately I know their viewpoints completely, but they don't know mine. They don't know the reasoning for mine, while I know theirs. It is so unbalanced that I can't feel fully comfortable around them. They don't know me fully. But I know them. I can see how much my mom wants to have a more full relationship with me, but she wants to not talk about religion or politics. And I can't be me without those being part of our conversations. She is trying, using nonbinary pronouns for my kid, but I know it doesn't come from true acceptance, and I have such a hard time with that.
I so deeply relate to the part about understanding your parents world view intimately, but they don't respect or want to know yours. My mom in particular is more comfortable pretending that I still agree with her instead of asking anything about where I'm at, and I know she is sad that we are relationship is quite strained and surface level but she doesn't have the emotional maturity to do anything about it.
We were no contact for a while, and about a year ago we opened up contact again so it was possible to have a relationship with my siblings and niece.
Self-esteem has been such a tricky concept for me. 15 years ago, I would have told you I had great self-esteem. However, looking back I can see how it was more of a contingent self-esteem, based on achievement and external expectations or even being “better” than my peers. This led me to live a sort of “super-Christian” life where I worked in full-time ministry, went on “missions” trips to dangerous places, and studied biblical studies at a Christian university. I consistently sought out, and did, the hardest thing I could imagine doing for god (thank you, Jesus Freak mentality). This pseudo self-esteem required every ounce of my energy as a neurodivergent kid with additional learning disabilities. Eventually my body would say “no more”, and burnout would aggressively invite me into rest and undoing.
There has been a slow shift, as I have deconstructed and lost favor with conservative evangelical circles, to base my self-esteem on my values and how I align with them. In many ways, I would say I have even ditched the concept of self-esteem in favor of common humanity and self-compassion. This feels like a much sturdier base for me.
On a cognitive level, I would say I now know my value and believe all parts of me are to be met with love, compassion, and curiosity. However, the emotional learning of my “badness” still lives on, deep in my nervous system as an unwelcome guest and constant companion. I believe this learning can heal and, on somedays, I even believe it will. But I hold this hope loosely while I embrace a life-long posture gentle healing and learning.
Currently, my parents lack respect for my views and values, and I believe many of their beliefs are deeply harmful to vulnerable communities (including myself). I still want to have a relationship with them…and I don’t. I want them to change… and I see no evidence that they ever will. I want my kiddo to have relationship with them and I want to protect who he is and who he will become. Push and pull- hope and grief.
such a good point about what your "self-esteem" is based in, and how for so many of us it ws about being a "good Christian kid," which like you said, isn't very sturdy -- and relied a lot on suppressing the "bad" parts, which is exhausting. Love the way you so eloquently talked about the healing process.
The sheer number of people condemning what parenting practices Christians were encouraging is so very telling. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, and for those who grew up in homes like Dobson et al. encourage, I’m so sorry. I hope to keep checking in here on Substack to bear witness to the stories everyone shares in the comments here.
Regarding resentment: My mother resents me plenty. She openly (randomly and often) blames me for her suffering. I am NOT the daughter she trained up. I am failing her tremendously.
I don’t resent her for it now because I see how she’s in a cult. I won’t subject myself to her vitriol, though. My kids need me.
I am sad I don’t set boundaries for myself, though. I realize that I’m really only able to separate from my mom because of my kids. That’s sobering.
Thank you for sharing, Kat. Just here to bear witness. And while you may have a hard time setting boundaries for yourself, thank you for doing that for your kids. There is a part of you that sees and acknowledges the importance of boundaries, and J celebrate that.
Finally upgraded to paid today! Thank you for doing this work - it is so important.
I do have self esteem, emotional security, self confidence and a sense of direction - but those things only appeared after I left religion and put in years of therapy and work into healing myself.
For a while, I was so angry at my mom for use of corporal punishment when I was younger - it caused so much suffering for me as a helpless child. It took years for me to move through those emotions and come to terms with that experience. (Terms meaning it was fucked up and abusive and I am thriving now because of ME.) I want to note that to her credit she listened without defensive ness when I spoke to her about these experiences and said she regretted years ago using corporal punishment and would never do it now.
I have a good relationship with my mom now - I enjoy spending time with her. My dad and I have a decent relationship as long as we avoid certain topics.
I find it so hard to respect their beliefs because I find them so harmful to themselves and the wider world - this has come to surface lately with the genocide in Palestine. I overheard a conversation where my dad especially seemed excited (?) there is a war going on. It makes me so so sad and angry, as I know he is comforted by his beliefs, but there is no responsibility taken for his comfort stemming from war and children being bombed. It’s so fucked up.
This feels like a canary in the coal mine project. May your work lead others to safety. ❤️
I love the part about your mom responding without defensiveness -- I totally believe that repair can happen, but it's pretty contingent on the emotional health of the parent to do the repair work.
Oh absolutely. I think my mom saw how badly many of their RAP choices influenced my mental health - but only because I found the strength to break free and begin healing, not because she sees any connection with RAP and shitty mental health outcomes.
I have made tremendous progress in building a sense of self esteem and emotional security as an adult but too often that has been in spite of my parents rather than because of them. Conversation with my dad is impossible because he shuts down when asked to discuss feelings. I’ve tried to talk about it with my mom but she was incapable of engaging with it without falling into anger and shame fueled defensiveness.
My parents’ religious beliefs and the political and interpersonal actions that arise from them are very harmful and they are completely able to see that. Even given the mental health outcomes that presented in me and my sister. I hope someday they’ll be able to actually accept who I am and see reality for what it is.
"in spite of my parents rather than because of them." Exactly. So many of us out here building self-esteem (or at least self-compassion) and healing, but not because of the way we were parented.
Do you have self-confidence and a sense of direction in your life? Lol
My lack of autonomy in childhood, especially during my teen years, means my adult "self-confidence" depends on successfully completing tasks that someone else assigned me *and* getting praise from that person. How else will I know whether I did the "right thing" and did it right? When paired with my stunning naivete, this dynamic left me wide open for people to exploit my hard work; I have a pattern of underemployment because I'm just "too valuable" as a workhorse.
As for a sense of direction, I was specifically taught *not* to make my own plans for the future but to "stay open" to God's guidance (which of course would lead me to marriage and lots of children). I was specifically taught that I *don't* have any real control over my life, that I might "be humbled" if I dream too big, and that terrible things will happen if l diverge from "God's plan." And don't forget: the world is about to end!
I resonate so much with this comment. I just stumbled across a few of my journal entries when I was 20 and it is wild how both of these things come up so much for me. I had NO sense of autonomy and no self-confidence in anything other than being good at following "god's will." Which shaped my life in so many ways (most of them negative!)
I recently watched a video clip of Dr. Gabor Mate speaking on child-parent attachment, and how if there is a choice between a child having to either give up their authenticity of who they are, or lose their attachment to their caregiver, they will choose to maintain attachment - as a survival strategy - and lose their authenticity, their identity and autonomy as a human being. That really rang true for me, as RAP techniques really drove home the message that I was worthless and broken, with a seemingly urgent "The end is nigh" feeling that I always had in the back of my head. There was no space to step out of line or to explore anything I might be interested in, and I had no sense of self apart from my role in my family and religion.
It's taken me years of many different types of therapy and intentional creating of a foundation for myself as a wonderful human being to find my own sense of self and identity outside of the labels of "Daughter of God, Daughter of my parents." I still have a fair amount of automatic negative thoughts about myself and my body, but I can honestly say that I love myself now, and I deeply appreciate my body and my human life. It all really is a wonderful gift from the Universe.
My relationship with my parents these days is a bit distant, and it helps that they don't live nearby. We know better than to talk about religion or politics, and we keep things light for the most part. I was able to tell them, (last year, when I found out my child had been harmed by her other parent and step-parent,) that: spanking harms children psychologically, it destroys the relationship and trust between children and parents, and there's nothing good about it. I braced myself for a bit of a rebuttal, but was shocked to hear them agree with me.
Several years ago, they gave me a semi-apology for the way they raised us. It's still kind of "too little, too late," but I'm glad to have had the apology vs no acknowledgement. I've seen my father cry only twice that I can remember, and once was a couple years ago when he was expressing his regrets about the walls between him and some of my siblings. To put it in a scriptural phrase: a man reaps what he sows.
I did not enter adulthood with any sense of self-esteem, purpose, or autonomy. I literally had no plans of my own after "graduate college." I knew once I moved out of the house, I'd never go back for more than a day at a time, but without them telling me what to do, I floundered. I didn't know what I wanted to do or who I really was. I felt stifled by the religion I grew up with and just quit church for a long while. I didn't believe in my own ability and didn't know how to voice my desires, so I didn't chase the few big ideas I had. Most of the time I was in decision paralysis and only acted when I had to.
I've now done my own work and found happiness & self-direction. At 44, I'm just now I'm learning how to offer myself compassion and validation. My relationship with my parents is superficial at best. Mom commented a while back that she "feels like she doesn't know me at all." Took all I had not to laugh at her and admit it was intentional. I don't see any space to have a safe or open conversation with them about my beliefs and experiences. My dad has learned that I will no longer blindly accept whatever crazy thing he spouts, and now acts like a petulant child when I'm around. He speaks to me only when he has to and sulks otherwise. He will talk to my mom and sister about me but won't talk to me directly. I spent my whole life managing his emotional state and ignoring my own. I'm over it.
I'm so glad you escaped! Sounds like such a dysfunctional family system, and the fact that you graduated college and had no life direction really speaks to that. Thank you for sharing!
My self esteem- or what I thought was self esteem- came from people pleasing. I just wanted to be accepted. Which was very anxiety provoking because my parents were telling me I would always be broken and a sinner. And I was barely making it as an acceptable person to god. My body suffered. All that anxiety hurt my body so much and I had no idea how to listen to her. Now the thought of spending time with my parents- mostly my dad- is anxiety provoking. My body reacts and I’m trying to honor that by being low contact. I do realize now how they are completely brain washed and indoctrinated themselves. That helps me have empathy for them. But I want absolutely nothing to do with their toxic religion and world view.
I talk about that with clients all the time -- your body helps you set boundaries, and if your body tells you it doesn't feel safe, it's important to honor that. I also love how you're both honoring your boundaries and holding empathy, that just because you have some understanding or feel empathic, doesn't mean you can't have boundaries for yourself. Thanks for sharing!
I don’t talk a lot about my dad. My mom was verbally abusive to him, and that was probably why he was rarely home. I asked him once why he married Mom, and he told me that he figured she would get him into Heaven.
That is very sad to me.
I didn’t spend a lot of time with my dad when I was a kid because he was rarely home, and if he was, I had to go to him and do what he was doing with him. He never came to me.
I don’t spend a lot of time with my dad now because I feel like I am begging for a scrap of approval from him when I’m around him, or he is just boring. It’s very awkward, at least.
I’ve respected my dad’s views, which were whispered to me privately from time to time, such as, “Many roads lead to Heaven.” These views were deemed heretical, but they probably would have served us better.
it felt sort of strange to ask, since it really doesn't acknowledge that being a person means experiencing a whole range of emotions.... but wanted to point out that multiple authors said (paraphrased) "if you follow our parenting advice, your kids will grow into happy adults.
Exactly. I think there’s a point to be made there, but I’m not sure what. That your kids will grow up alexithymic? That “happy” is too vague, so of course we can use it in our advertising? I mean, it sounds good.
I wasn't raised in or around a RAP environment, but I did see a lot of parenting styles that presumed all kids were supposed to just approximate a very particular ideal that did not have proven/obvious practical or logical value in terms of producing a functional adult/family, which seems rather similar.
These families definitely had issues, but growing up, I always figured they were well within the normal range of family dysfunction and would likely work itself out for the most part. On the whole, the parents were well-meaning and dedicated (and usually affluent and educated), and there were plenty of positive qualities and happy times. The kids seemed to be becoming functional if somewhat aimless and anxious adults.
I recently took stock, though, and was kind of surprised by where things stand now. The answers to the first three questions are mixed, but the probable answers to the latter four seemed striking to me. Although I will say that none of the parents in questions would have given very positive answers to those questions when it comes to their own parents, so maybe there's something else going on there.
But like when it comes to the questions "Is your relationship with your parents one of mutual respect?" and "Do you feel respect for your parents' views?" the answer seems to be "no," for the most part. And when this is chronic, it leads to distancing and "soft estrangement" almost as a matter of course. Because it indicates that at least one of the parties is failing to "see" the other party, and I've found that with my peers, it's the parents failing to see the kids. But usually it was the other way around with their own parents. When one side can't "see" the other and adjust, there are constant disconnects that get explained away in bizarre, dismissive, or uncharitable ways, and mutual respect, or even one-sided respect, becomes impossible. And there's not even the structure of religion to provide a shared, authoritative framework for navigating out of the impasse in those cases.
IMO, there's something simply not quite right about any parent who just latches onto some dubiously-grounded universal ideal of what their child should be, and I think that disordered impulse can lead them to attach to RAP in a different cultural environment. The non-religious version has IMO come to pass as normal in many circles, but that's wholly unwarranted. It's a bizarre and unhealthy behavior, even though the impulse may be understandable and pursued with the best of intentions. I think a lot of people had no idea how to handle the changes of the late 20c and were totally un-grounded from reality/history for various reasons, so it's easy to see how it happened. But I really worry about the effects, as they start to become conspicuous and sink in.
I would add, though, that most of them had fairly serious and chronic self-esteem or mental health issues at one point or another. I think the method was a clear failure on that point alone. It was too inward-looking/un-tethered/opportunistically self-serving to form young adults ready to interact confidently and effectively with the always changing array of opportunities, norms, and demands, of the outside world.
It seems obvious to me that these ideologies only "make sense" in situations where the children are expected to remain more-or-less in their parents' orbit for life, but that's rarely an option or expectation in the modern US. This has been my main complain with that kind of parenting ideology, to the extent I was personally affected by it. I have noticed that the parents attracted to it are almost incapable of registering what is going on with their kids career-wise, and seem averse to understanding the details. Because it was never actually about raising children who could engage with the outside world; it was about raising children whose "presentation" fit the ideal their parents had in mind.
oof, that part about being incapable of not registering their kids' careers.... such an inability to see them as people outside of the family structure. And I definitely think that Dobson was simply repackaging (with more emotional manipulation) a lot of the type of parenting due to the religious context of the US... in other words, I think that although there was some "new"ish parts to RAP, a lot of it was just harkening back to what's baked into US society.
"...in other words, I think that although there was some 'new'ish parts to RAP, a lot of it was just harkening back to what's baked into US society."
Totally agree.
But I can at least follow the reasoning in the religious context, where I'd say it was often a rather explicit rationale for raising kids who would prefer staying in their hometowns and perpetuating an established ideal to chasing "worldly success."
Outside of that context, it's just a spiral of tacit assumptions and delusions with no real-world or shared social referents. Which gives an opening to pretty much every ideology or established tradition able to provide a coherent-sounding justification for such behavior, no matter how dubious. To the extent this pattern of thinking is baked into US society, we really need to work on preventing the uncritical acceptance of it from gaining traction. And I think the main reason it's a problem in America is that our society isn't designed to give rise to social frameworks that remain stable over time or community-wide. So we have to find a way to teach people how to make sense of that situation in a constructive manner.
I feel the echoes of authoritarian parenting in many aspects of my life. There's the sense of dread at the thought of sitting down for a meal with my parents. Keeping conversations with them at surface level because we disagree on everything that matters. Putting up with miserable work conditions far longer than I should. A sister who spent over 30 years in an emotionally abusive relationship because she couldn't wait to get out of the house.
I recently had to tell my mother that corporal punishment doesn't work and is condemned by child psychology when she suggested I give my toddler a "swat." We may have to have the Dobson is/was a bastard conversation conversation soon. I recently made an appointment to resume therapy after catching myself losing my temper with my toddler for normal toddler things. More echoes of my authoritarian programming that I feel sick with guilt about.
I'm slowly slowly building good self-esteem and emotional security but for the longest time I didn't. And that way of parenting just really set me up to people please and down play myself and not think very highly of myself. Same for self-confidence and a sense of direction. I still feel a little aimless. I know I love to write but connecting that to some sort of direction has proven to be really hard for me.
However, after leaving the religion I was brought up in I've never been happier. I think the past few years of my life have been the happiest. My inner world and my positive outlook on life have finally aligned!!
I think regardless of the parenting I have a pretty good relationship with my parents now. They're aware I don't think the same as they do anymore and they've taken it fairly well all things considered. So I'm thankful that I can still be a part of their lives in a good way.
I can feel how hard it is to think about some of these questions (and the taboo against answering them in a semi-public space). For me, I have a very strained relationship with my parents currently in part because they really want to "agree to disagree" about things like rights for trans people in order to have a relationship. When in childhood, of course, I was never allowed to agree to disagree.
My parents would love to have a surface-level relationship with me but unfortunately I have had access to all of their conservative political views non-stop for almost 4 decades. I understand their worldview completely and intimately, and I don't respect it at all.
Yes! This. My parents want a surface-level relationship with me too. Actually they want deeper, but are afraid to ask me questions to protect their vision of me that they already know is wrong. And unfortunately I know their viewpoints completely, but they don't know mine. They don't know the reasoning for mine, while I know theirs. It is so unbalanced that I can't feel fully comfortable around them. They don't know me fully. But I know them. I can see how much my mom wants to have a more full relationship with me, but she wants to not talk about religion or politics. And I can't be me without those being part of our conversations. She is trying, using nonbinary pronouns for my kid, but I know it doesn't come from true acceptance, and I have such a hard time with that.
I so deeply relate to the part about understanding your parents world view intimately, but they don't respect or want to know yours. My mom in particular is more comfortable pretending that I still agree with her instead of asking anything about where I'm at, and I know she is sad that we are relationship is quite strained and surface level but she doesn't have the emotional maturity to do anything about it.
We were no contact for a while, and about a year ago we opened up contact again so it was possible to have a relationship with my siblings and niece.
Self-esteem has been such a tricky concept for me. 15 years ago, I would have told you I had great self-esteem. However, looking back I can see how it was more of a contingent self-esteem, based on achievement and external expectations or even being “better” than my peers. This led me to live a sort of “super-Christian” life where I worked in full-time ministry, went on “missions” trips to dangerous places, and studied biblical studies at a Christian university. I consistently sought out, and did, the hardest thing I could imagine doing for god (thank you, Jesus Freak mentality). This pseudo self-esteem required every ounce of my energy as a neurodivergent kid with additional learning disabilities. Eventually my body would say “no more”, and burnout would aggressively invite me into rest and undoing.
There has been a slow shift, as I have deconstructed and lost favor with conservative evangelical circles, to base my self-esteem on my values and how I align with them. In many ways, I would say I have even ditched the concept of self-esteem in favor of common humanity and self-compassion. This feels like a much sturdier base for me.
On a cognitive level, I would say I now know my value and believe all parts of me are to be met with love, compassion, and curiosity. However, the emotional learning of my “badness” still lives on, deep in my nervous system as an unwelcome guest and constant companion. I believe this learning can heal and, on somedays, I even believe it will. But I hold this hope loosely while I embrace a life-long posture gentle healing and learning.
Currently, my parents lack respect for my views and values, and I believe many of their beliefs are deeply harmful to vulnerable communities (including myself). I still want to have a relationship with them…and I don’t. I want them to change… and I see no evidence that they ever will. I want my kiddo to have relationship with them and I want to protect who he is and who he will become. Push and pull- hope and grief.
such a good point about what your "self-esteem" is based in, and how for so many of us it ws about being a "good Christian kid," which like you said, isn't very sturdy -- and relied a lot on suppressing the "bad" parts, which is exhausting. Love the way you so eloquently talked about the healing process.
The sheer number of people condemning what parenting practices Christians were encouraging is so very telling. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home, and for those who grew up in homes like Dobson et al. encourage, I’m so sorry. I hope to keep checking in here on Substack to bear witness to the stories everyone shares in the comments here.
Regarding resentment: My mother resents me plenty. She openly (randomly and often) blames me for her suffering. I am NOT the daughter she trained up. I am failing her tremendously.
I don’t resent her for it now because I see how she’s in a cult. I won’t subject myself to her vitriol, though. My kids need me.
I am sad I don’t set boundaries for myself, though. I realize that I’m really only able to separate from my mom because of my kids. That’s sobering.
Thank you for sharing, Kat. Just here to bear witness. And while you may have a hard time setting boundaries for yourself, thank you for doing that for your kids. There is a part of you that sees and acknowledges the importance of boundaries, and J celebrate that.
Finally upgraded to paid today! Thank you for doing this work - it is so important.
I do have self esteem, emotional security, self confidence and a sense of direction - but those things only appeared after I left religion and put in years of therapy and work into healing myself.
For a while, I was so angry at my mom for use of corporal punishment when I was younger - it caused so much suffering for me as a helpless child. It took years for me to move through those emotions and come to terms with that experience. (Terms meaning it was fucked up and abusive and I am thriving now because of ME.) I want to note that to her credit she listened without defensive ness when I spoke to her about these experiences and said she regretted years ago using corporal punishment and would never do it now.
I have a good relationship with my mom now - I enjoy spending time with her. My dad and I have a decent relationship as long as we avoid certain topics.
I find it so hard to respect their beliefs because I find them so harmful to themselves and the wider world - this has come to surface lately with the genocide in Palestine. I overheard a conversation where my dad especially seemed excited (?) there is a war going on. It makes me so so sad and angry, as I know he is comforted by his beliefs, but there is no responsibility taken for his comfort stemming from war and children being bombed. It’s so fucked up.
This feels like a canary in the coal mine project. May your work lead others to safety. ❤️
I love the part about your mom responding without defensiveness -- I totally believe that repair can happen, but it's pretty contingent on the emotional health of the parent to do the repair work.
Oh absolutely. I think my mom saw how badly many of their RAP choices influenced my mental health - but only because I found the strength to break free and begin healing, not because she sees any connection with RAP and shitty mental health outcomes.
I have made tremendous progress in building a sense of self esteem and emotional security as an adult but too often that has been in spite of my parents rather than because of them. Conversation with my dad is impossible because he shuts down when asked to discuss feelings. I’ve tried to talk about it with my mom but she was incapable of engaging with it without falling into anger and shame fueled defensiveness.
My parents’ religious beliefs and the political and interpersonal actions that arise from them are very harmful and they are completely able to see that. Even given the mental health outcomes that presented in me and my sister. I hope someday they’ll be able to actually accept who I am and see reality for what it is.
"in spite of my parents rather than because of them." Exactly. So many of us out here building self-esteem (or at least self-compassion) and healing, but not because of the way we were parented.
Do you have self-confidence and a sense of direction in your life? Lol
My lack of autonomy in childhood, especially during my teen years, means my adult "self-confidence" depends on successfully completing tasks that someone else assigned me *and* getting praise from that person. How else will I know whether I did the "right thing" and did it right? When paired with my stunning naivete, this dynamic left me wide open for people to exploit my hard work; I have a pattern of underemployment because I'm just "too valuable" as a workhorse.
As for a sense of direction, I was specifically taught *not* to make my own plans for the future but to "stay open" to God's guidance (which of course would lead me to marriage and lots of children). I was specifically taught that I *don't* have any real control over my life, that I might "be humbled" if I dream too big, and that terrible things will happen if l diverge from "God's plan." And don't forget: the world is about to end!
I resonate so much with this comment. I just stumbled across a few of my journal entries when I was 20 and it is wild how both of these things come up so much for me. I had NO sense of autonomy and no self-confidence in anything other than being good at following "god's will." Which shaped my life in so many ways (most of them negative!)
I recently watched a video clip of Dr. Gabor Mate speaking on child-parent attachment, and how if there is a choice between a child having to either give up their authenticity of who they are, or lose their attachment to their caregiver, they will choose to maintain attachment - as a survival strategy - and lose their authenticity, their identity and autonomy as a human being. That really rang true for me, as RAP techniques really drove home the message that I was worthless and broken, with a seemingly urgent "The end is nigh" feeling that I always had in the back of my head. There was no space to step out of line or to explore anything I might be interested in, and I had no sense of self apart from my role in my family and religion.
It's taken me years of many different types of therapy and intentional creating of a foundation for myself as a wonderful human being to find my own sense of self and identity outside of the labels of "Daughter of God, Daughter of my parents." I still have a fair amount of automatic negative thoughts about myself and my body, but I can honestly say that I love myself now, and I deeply appreciate my body and my human life. It all really is a wonderful gift from the Universe.
My relationship with my parents these days is a bit distant, and it helps that they don't live nearby. We know better than to talk about religion or politics, and we keep things light for the most part. I was able to tell them, (last year, when I found out my child had been harmed by her other parent and step-parent,) that: spanking harms children psychologically, it destroys the relationship and trust between children and parents, and there's nothing good about it. I braced myself for a bit of a rebuttal, but was shocked to hear them agree with me.
Several years ago, they gave me a semi-apology for the way they raised us. It's still kind of "too little, too late," but I'm glad to have had the apology vs no acknowledgement. I've seen my father cry only twice that I can remember, and once was a couple years ago when he was expressing his regrets about the walls between him and some of my siblings. To put it in a scriptural phrase: a man reaps what he sows.
I did not enter adulthood with any sense of self-esteem, purpose, or autonomy. I literally had no plans of my own after "graduate college." I knew once I moved out of the house, I'd never go back for more than a day at a time, but without them telling me what to do, I floundered. I didn't know what I wanted to do or who I really was. I felt stifled by the religion I grew up with and just quit church for a long while. I didn't believe in my own ability and didn't know how to voice my desires, so I didn't chase the few big ideas I had. Most of the time I was in decision paralysis and only acted when I had to.
I've now done my own work and found happiness & self-direction. At 44, I'm just now I'm learning how to offer myself compassion and validation. My relationship with my parents is superficial at best. Mom commented a while back that she "feels like she doesn't know me at all." Took all I had not to laugh at her and admit it was intentional. I don't see any space to have a safe or open conversation with them about my beliefs and experiences. My dad has learned that I will no longer blindly accept whatever crazy thing he spouts, and now acts like a petulant child when I'm around. He speaks to me only when he has to and sulks otherwise. He will talk to my mom and sister about me but won't talk to me directly. I spent my whole life managing his emotional state and ignoring my own. I'm over it.
I'm so glad you escaped! Sounds like such a dysfunctional family system, and the fact that you graduated college and had no life direction really speaks to that. Thank you for sharing!
My self esteem- or what I thought was self esteem- came from people pleasing. I just wanted to be accepted. Which was very anxiety provoking because my parents were telling me I would always be broken and a sinner. And I was barely making it as an acceptable person to god. My body suffered. All that anxiety hurt my body so much and I had no idea how to listen to her. Now the thought of spending time with my parents- mostly my dad- is anxiety provoking. My body reacts and I’m trying to honor that by being low contact. I do realize now how they are completely brain washed and indoctrinated themselves. That helps me have empathy for them. But I want absolutely nothing to do with their toxic religion and world view.
I talk about that with clients all the time -- your body helps you set boundaries, and if your body tells you it doesn't feel safe, it's important to honor that. I also love how you're both honoring your boundaries and holding empathy, that just because you have some understanding or feel empathic, doesn't mean you can't have boundaries for yourself. Thanks for sharing!
I don’t talk a lot about my dad. My mom was verbally abusive to him, and that was probably why he was rarely home. I asked him once why he married Mom, and he told me that he figured she would get him into Heaven.
That is very sad to me.
I didn’t spend a lot of time with my dad when I was a kid because he was rarely home, and if he was, I had to go to him and do what he was doing with him. He never came to me.
I don’t spend a lot of time with my dad now because I feel like I am begging for a scrap of approval from him when I’m around him, or he is just boring. It’s very awkward, at least.
I’ve respected my dad’s views, which were whispered to me privately from time to time, such as, “Many roads lead to Heaven.” These views were deemed heretical, but they probably would have served us better.
Am I a happy person? That’s an interesting question. I don’t know. I have no idea how to gauge that.
it felt sort of strange to ask, since it really doesn't acknowledge that being a person means experiencing a whole range of emotions.... but wanted to point out that multiple authors said (paraphrased) "if you follow our parenting advice, your kids will grow into happy adults.
Exactly. I think there’s a point to be made there, but I’m not sure what. That your kids will grow up alexithymic? That “happy” is too vague, so of course we can use it in our advertising? I mean, it sounds good.
I wasn't raised in or around a RAP environment, but I did see a lot of parenting styles that presumed all kids were supposed to just approximate a very particular ideal that did not have proven/obvious practical or logical value in terms of producing a functional adult/family, which seems rather similar.
These families definitely had issues, but growing up, I always figured they were well within the normal range of family dysfunction and would likely work itself out for the most part. On the whole, the parents were well-meaning and dedicated (and usually affluent and educated), and there were plenty of positive qualities and happy times. The kids seemed to be becoming functional if somewhat aimless and anxious adults.
I recently took stock, though, and was kind of surprised by where things stand now. The answers to the first three questions are mixed, but the probable answers to the latter four seemed striking to me. Although I will say that none of the parents in questions would have given very positive answers to those questions when it comes to their own parents, so maybe there's something else going on there.
But like when it comes to the questions "Is your relationship with your parents one of mutual respect?" and "Do you feel respect for your parents' views?" the answer seems to be "no," for the most part. And when this is chronic, it leads to distancing and "soft estrangement" almost as a matter of course. Because it indicates that at least one of the parties is failing to "see" the other party, and I've found that with my peers, it's the parents failing to see the kids. But usually it was the other way around with their own parents. When one side can't "see" the other and adjust, there are constant disconnects that get explained away in bizarre, dismissive, or uncharitable ways, and mutual respect, or even one-sided respect, becomes impossible. And there's not even the structure of religion to provide a shared, authoritative framework for navigating out of the impasse in those cases.
IMO, there's something simply not quite right about any parent who just latches onto some dubiously-grounded universal ideal of what their child should be, and I think that disordered impulse can lead them to attach to RAP in a different cultural environment. The non-religious version has IMO come to pass as normal in many circles, but that's wholly unwarranted. It's a bizarre and unhealthy behavior, even though the impulse may be understandable and pursued with the best of intentions. I think a lot of people had no idea how to handle the changes of the late 20c and were totally un-grounded from reality/history for various reasons, so it's easy to see how it happened. But I really worry about the effects, as they start to become conspicuous and sink in.
I would add, though, that most of them had fairly serious and chronic self-esteem or mental health issues at one point or another. I think the method was a clear failure on that point alone. It was too inward-looking/un-tethered/opportunistically self-serving to form young adults ready to interact confidently and effectively with the always changing array of opportunities, norms, and demands, of the outside world.
It seems obvious to me that these ideologies only "make sense" in situations where the children are expected to remain more-or-less in their parents' orbit for life, but that's rarely an option or expectation in the modern US. This has been my main complain with that kind of parenting ideology, to the extent I was personally affected by it. I have noticed that the parents attracted to it are almost incapable of registering what is going on with their kids career-wise, and seem averse to understanding the details. Because it was never actually about raising children who could engage with the outside world; it was about raising children whose "presentation" fit the ideal their parents had in mind.
oof, that part about being incapable of not registering their kids' careers.... such an inability to see them as people outside of the family structure. And I definitely think that Dobson was simply repackaging (with more emotional manipulation) a lot of the type of parenting due to the religious context of the US... in other words, I think that although there was some "new"ish parts to RAP, a lot of it was just harkening back to what's baked into US society.
"...in other words, I think that although there was some 'new'ish parts to RAP, a lot of it was just harkening back to what's baked into US society."
Totally agree.
But I can at least follow the reasoning in the religious context, where I'd say it was often a rather explicit rationale for raising kids who would prefer staying in their hometowns and perpetuating an established ideal to chasing "worldly success."
Outside of that context, it's just a spiral of tacit assumptions and delusions with no real-world or shared social referents. Which gives an opening to pretty much every ideology or established tradition able to provide a coherent-sounding justification for such behavior, no matter how dubious. To the extent this pattern of thinking is baked into US society, we really need to work on preventing the uncritical acceptance of it from gaining traction. And I think the main reason it's a problem in America is that our society isn't designed to give rise to social frameworks that remain stable over time or community-wide. So we have to find a way to teach people how to make sense of that situation in a constructive manner.
I feel the echoes of authoritarian parenting in many aspects of my life. There's the sense of dread at the thought of sitting down for a meal with my parents. Keeping conversations with them at surface level because we disagree on everything that matters. Putting up with miserable work conditions far longer than I should. A sister who spent over 30 years in an emotionally abusive relationship because she couldn't wait to get out of the house.
I recently had to tell my mother that corporal punishment doesn't work and is condemned by child psychology when she suggested I give my toddler a "swat." We may have to have the Dobson is/was a bastard conversation conversation soon. I recently made an appointment to resume therapy after catching myself losing my temper with my toddler for normal toddler things. More echoes of my authoritarian programming that I feel sick with guilt about.
It matters that you're trying to change things for yourself and your toddler.
What you wrote reminded me of these posts:
https://www.handsfreemama.com/2013/12/10/the-bully-too-close-to-home/
https://www.handsfreemama.com/2020/06/26/a-personal-note-from-the-messy-midpoint-its-not-ruined/
I'm slowly slowly building good self-esteem and emotional security but for the longest time I didn't. And that way of parenting just really set me up to people please and down play myself and not think very highly of myself. Same for self-confidence and a sense of direction. I still feel a little aimless. I know I love to write but connecting that to some sort of direction has proven to be really hard for me.
However, after leaving the religion I was brought up in I've never been happier. I think the past few years of my life have been the happiest. My inner world and my positive outlook on life have finally aligned!!
I think regardless of the parenting I have a pretty good relationship with my parents now. They're aware I don't think the same as they do anymore and they've taken it fairly well all things considered. So I'm thankful that I can still be a part of their lives in a good way.