This made me stop — “They found that children who were spanked were more attuned to potential threats, and which even included neutral faces. In other words, these children were more likely to be constantly monitoring the facial expressions of others, feeling on edge, and easily thrown into dysregulation if someone else seemed unhappy — even if it was simply the absence of a happy facial expression.”
Wow, that clicks. I have noticed that it is very, very hard for me to see anyone, especially my kids, unhappy. It seems more than just a motherly instinct.
And the smiling, happy people countenance — could that be a result of this hypervigilance for some people?
This is important because even though I’ve tried to teach my kids it’s okay to be sad, if they are sensing from me that it’s really not okay to be sad every time I have this automatic stress response to sadness (or anger or whatnot), they become hypervigilant, too.
My kids have always seen through me saying, “It’s fine!” We now jokingly say, “It’ll be fiiiine,” every time it’s really not.
Yes, this clicked for me too. It gave me words for something I experienced, but couldn’t explain. I would cry all day at preschool, because of this and had to be homeschooled, until 4th grade. I had thought I was a late bloomer, but it was because I was sparked so much under age 2.
The principal of my private K-8 Christian school had a paddle hanging in his office. My parents used to spank us on our bare bottoms by hand, but my mom switched to "the wooden spoon" after she hurt her palm by hitting too hard. (She also joked about upgrading to a spoon with a thicker, unbreakable handle.) Gee, I wonder where my constant subconscious fear of "getting in trouble" comes from, not to mention my innate fear and distrust of all "authority figures"...
I have no proof of this on a large scale, but it makes a ton of emotional sense to me that those of us who grew up this way would take much longer than most abused kids to realize that what happened to us was abuse. In essence, we were being gaslit into believing our abuse wasn't abuse.
Thanks so much for all your work compiling this data into one place! It's going to be an invaluable resource!
Well said. The “facts don’t care about feelings” mentality has done a lot of heavy lifting in American Christianity, especially since the Bible is the Ultimate Fact and carries more weight than actual data (or biblical scholarship for that matter)
“If a child grows up believing this is the most loving thing a parent can do to a child, the chances are that they will replicate this pattern with their own kids, creating a system of control and a cycle of generational trauma that masquerades as Christian love.” Yessssssss D.L. - thank you for your work on this. It’s so important to name!
I resonate with the research- particularly the mental health components. The calm/loving facade in the Dobson model is gross and insidious. I had no clue my lived experience as a kid was so full of fear, anxiety, and shame until well into adulthood. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn’t have language for those those things- and once I did, it was all labeled as being sinful or lacking faith and not safe to admit.
It wasn’t enough to have authority figures feel neutral towards me-it was too close to disappointment, it’s like I had to figure out what made them happy/proud and achieve that. Forgot developing a healthy self-concept. So I masked. So much masking and pretending all while my little self was holding so much trauma -alone. Not anymore. Whew.
Ah, I so relate to all of this, but definitely still the part about being attuned to my (perceived) failures/mistakes and barely registering my successes. Also the part about hypervigilance of the moods of others. A lack of warmth on someone’s face can send me straight into fawn mode with any kind of authority figure, or even peers sometimes.
I’m so glad all this research has been coming out. I had a unique opportunity last year to explain to my parents the ways that spanking harms children while having a conversation with them about a major issue with other family members of my child’s. It felt so validating to be able to express the pain of both what it had done to me, and what it had done to my child, and have them actually respond that they knew I was right about it. I know not everyone gets that kind of full-circle catharsis later in life, and I’m so glad I did. It was a huge victory for my inner child.
Wow, I am really glad that they responded well, definitely not guaranteed. Also, I agree, it's helpful to have research that makes it clear how it has a long-term impact
So much of this resonated with me and how I was raised. Though I wasn't in a strictly Christian home, I was raised in a rural conservative setting, where everyone had a belief in God and ways that roles in home and work should play out, which definitely led to a love of corporal punishment and no questions about its role in discipline. I think the research and discussion around fawning and always being hypervigilant around other people's emotions really hit me in new way. I have always known that spanking is harmful, but I didn't consider that aspect of it. I remember as an adult, my mom had arranged something for me that I didn't want to do but I strongly felt like I couldn't say no to her, I had to obey her. And I remember how very upset I was by the situation and how powerless I felt. So much like my younger self in a world of spanking and discipline that was physical. The rural aspect related to poverty is striking, too, I think. My mom and her sisters were single moms, and I think they just had no idea how else to discipline and everyone did it. Our schools paddled my brothers for misbehaviour (ADHD behaviour, grrr). Anyone was allowed to spank us. It was so very normalized. And so harmful.
My sister labeled spanking as abusive way before I did. I, on the other hand, never examined it - that is until this past year. My sister brought up the negative impact of spanking with our mom.
My mom reacted by texting me, "Your sister is trying to get you all to hate dad. Do you remember dad spanking any of you with a leather belt? That's what his parents used, but not dad! I used a wooden spoon." I replied without much thought, ' I do remember dad using a leather belt, but always with a system of explaining why before and after. You were following Dr. Dobson's advice, I think." Mom replied, "You were great kids and did not need much corrections. It was the way so many parents disciplined in the 80's."
This text exchange led me into a deep Dr. D dive. I got how the spanking routine led to kids who were about to be obedient and respectful but couldn't fathom how that was supposed to equate to love or a healthy adult child relationship. Short of it for me, it doesn't. I now have a better understanding of why I feel deep levels of anxiety leading up to and after a visit or even a text.
P.S. As the one labeled a 'Strong-Willed Child', I remember frequent 'corrections'.
Yes! I get intense anxiety when my mom texts, especially if she’s asking me to do something that I want to say no to (like when she invited me to church or gives me a book by a Christian author). It’s intense anxiety and dread of her reaction.
So relatable as usual - I have not even been aware I'm doing a lot of this stuff! I hate it when my kids are unhappy. One in particular is more emotionally out there and I just feel so stressed out by it. I make sure to put on a beaming face when I pull up to pick up my kids up from school, because I remember scanning the window as my parents pulled up and they always looked mad. Like they'd gone through my room or a teacher had called them up: emotional warfare impending.
Just the other day, I was at a playground with my kid, and a mom was telling her young son (I'd guess 3yo) it was time to leave. He resisted leaving and continued to play. She began to speak in an emotionless, but very stern tone, telling him if he did not obey immediately, he would receive a spanking. He said he was not leaving and continued to play, and she spanked him right there in front of other kids and parents, then made him hug her afterwards. There was no apparent anger or strong emotion to any of it, just a measured and obviously rehearsed routine. This at one time would not have seemed abnormal to me, but now seeing someone hit their child, not even as an angry outburst (which would of course be horrifying to see as well), but just going through the motions, I was so sad. Sad for the kid enduring that. Sad for the mom, who was conned into believing this is how to love her child. Sad for us as a society, having endured so much trauma in the name of love, and having such a small imagination for what it means to guide and care for children well.
It was encouraging, though, that I exchanged wide-eyed glances with the other parents, who seemed to have the same feelings toward this as I did. Maybe they were just surprised that she did it in public, rather than later at home, but I'm glad there at least were other adults who seemed to see this as not normal or okay.
This made me stop — “They found that children who were spanked were more attuned to potential threats, and which even included neutral faces. In other words, these children were more likely to be constantly monitoring the facial expressions of others, feeling on edge, and easily thrown into dysregulation if someone else seemed unhappy — even if it was simply the absence of a happy facial expression.”
Wow, that clicks. I have noticed that it is very, very hard for me to see anyone, especially my kids, unhappy. It seems more than just a motherly instinct.
And the smiling, happy people countenance — could that be a result of this hypervigilance for some people?
Yeah, it really.programs you for fawning and codependency, on a neurological level!
This is important because even though I’ve tried to teach my kids it’s okay to be sad, if they are sensing from me that it’s really not okay to be sad every time I have this automatic stress response to sadness (or anger or whatnot), they become hypervigilant, too.
My kids have always seen through me saying, “It’s fine!” We now jokingly say, “It’ll be fiiiine,” every time it’s really not.
Yes, this clicked for me too. It gave me words for something I experienced, but couldn’t explain. I would cry all day at preschool, because of this and had to be homeschooled, until 4th grade. I had thought I was a late bloomer, but it was because I was sparked so much under age 2.
The principal of my private K-8 Christian school had a paddle hanging in his office. My parents used to spank us on our bare bottoms by hand, but my mom switched to "the wooden spoon" after she hurt her palm by hitting too hard. (She also joked about upgrading to a spoon with a thicker, unbreakable handle.) Gee, I wonder where my constant subconscious fear of "getting in trouble" comes from, not to mention my innate fear and distrust of all "authority figures"...
yes! I think it really really impacts how so many of us relate to authority figures
YES! I'm always scared of getting in trouble and often found myself in a fawning response at work.
So this! Immediate fawning or freeze response for me!
I have no proof of this on a large scale, but it makes a ton of emotional sense to me that those of us who grew up this way would take much longer than most abused kids to realize that what happened to us was abuse. In essence, we were being gaslit into believing our abuse wasn't abuse.
Thanks so much for all your work compiling this data into one place! It's going to be an invaluable resource!
Yes! So true!
Well said. The “facts don’t care about feelings” mentality has done a lot of heavy lifting in American Christianity, especially since the Bible is the Ultimate Fact and carries more weight than actual data (or biblical scholarship for that matter)
“If a child grows up believing this is the most loving thing a parent can do to a child, the chances are that they will replicate this pattern with their own kids, creating a system of control and a cycle of generational trauma that masquerades as Christian love.” Yessssssss D.L. - thank you for your work on this. It’s so important to name!
I resonate with the research- particularly the mental health components. The calm/loving facade in the Dobson model is gross and insidious. I had no clue my lived experience as a kid was so full of fear, anxiety, and shame until well into adulthood. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn’t have language for those those things- and once I did, it was all labeled as being sinful or lacking faith and not safe to admit.
It wasn’t enough to have authority figures feel neutral towards me-it was too close to disappointment, it’s like I had to figure out what made them happy/proud and achieve that. Forgot developing a healthy self-concept. So I masked. So much masking and pretending all while my little self was holding so much trauma -alone. Not anymore. Whew.
Dang. So well said. And I relate so much!
Ah, I so relate to all of this, but definitely still the part about being attuned to my (perceived) failures/mistakes and barely registering my successes. Also the part about hypervigilance of the moods of others. A lack of warmth on someone’s face can send me straight into fawn mode with any kind of authority figure, or even peers sometimes.
I’m so glad all this research has been coming out. I had a unique opportunity last year to explain to my parents the ways that spanking harms children while having a conversation with them about a major issue with other family members of my child’s. It felt so validating to be able to express the pain of both what it had done to me, and what it had done to my child, and have them actually respond that they knew I was right about it. I know not everyone gets that kind of full-circle catharsis later in life, and I’m so glad I did. It was a huge victory for my inner child.
Wow, I am really glad that they responded well, definitely not guaranteed. Also, I agree, it's helpful to have research that makes it clear how it has a long-term impact
So much of this resonated with me and how I was raised. Though I wasn't in a strictly Christian home, I was raised in a rural conservative setting, where everyone had a belief in God and ways that roles in home and work should play out, which definitely led to a love of corporal punishment and no questions about its role in discipline. I think the research and discussion around fawning and always being hypervigilant around other people's emotions really hit me in new way. I have always known that spanking is harmful, but I didn't consider that aspect of it. I remember as an adult, my mom had arranged something for me that I didn't want to do but I strongly felt like I couldn't say no to her, I had to obey her. And I remember how very upset I was by the situation and how powerless I felt. So much like my younger self in a world of spanking and discipline that was physical. The rural aspect related to poverty is striking, too, I think. My mom and her sisters were single moms, and I think they just had no idea how else to discipline and everyone did it. Our schools paddled my brothers for misbehaviour (ADHD behaviour, grrr). Anyone was allowed to spank us. It was so very normalized. And so harmful.
My sister labeled spanking as abusive way before I did. I, on the other hand, never examined it - that is until this past year. My sister brought up the negative impact of spanking with our mom.
My mom reacted by texting me, "Your sister is trying to get you all to hate dad. Do you remember dad spanking any of you with a leather belt? That's what his parents used, but not dad! I used a wooden spoon." I replied without much thought, ' I do remember dad using a leather belt, but always with a system of explaining why before and after. You were following Dr. Dobson's advice, I think." Mom replied, "You were great kids and did not need much corrections. It was the way so many parents disciplined in the 80's."
This text exchange led me into a deep Dr. D dive. I got how the spanking routine led to kids who were about to be obedient and respectful but couldn't fathom how that was supposed to equate to love or a healthy adult child relationship. Short of it for me, it doesn't. I now have a better understanding of why I feel deep levels of anxiety leading up to and after a visit or even a text.
P.S. As the one labeled a 'Strong-Willed Child', I remember frequent 'corrections'.
The body remembers and I think that's such an important source of information!
Yes! I get intense anxiety when my mom texts, especially if she’s asking me to do something that I want to say no to (like when she invited me to church or gives me a book by a Christian author). It’s intense anxiety and dread of her reaction.
So relatable as usual - I have not even been aware I'm doing a lot of this stuff! I hate it when my kids are unhappy. One in particular is more emotionally out there and I just feel so stressed out by it. I make sure to put on a beaming face when I pull up to pick up my kids up from school, because I remember scanning the window as my parents pulled up and they always looked mad. Like they'd gone through my room or a teacher had called them up: emotional warfare impending.
Just the other day, I was at a playground with my kid, and a mom was telling her young son (I'd guess 3yo) it was time to leave. He resisted leaving and continued to play. She began to speak in an emotionless, but very stern tone, telling him if he did not obey immediately, he would receive a spanking. He said he was not leaving and continued to play, and she spanked him right there in front of other kids and parents, then made him hug her afterwards. There was no apparent anger or strong emotion to any of it, just a measured and obviously rehearsed routine. This at one time would not have seemed abnormal to me, but now seeing someone hit their child, not even as an angry outburst (which would of course be horrifying to see as well), but just going through the motions, I was so sad. Sad for the kid enduring that. Sad for the mom, who was conned into believing this is how to love her child. Sad for us as a society, having endured so much trauma in the name of love, and having such a small imagination for what it means to guide and care for children well.
It was encouraging, though, that I exchanged wide-eyed glances with the other parents, who seemed to have the same feelings toward this as I did. Maybe they were just surprised that she did it in public, rather than later at home, but I'm glad there at least were other adults who seemed to see this as not normal or okay.