Welcome to STRONGWILLED, the multimedia project aimed at helping survivors of religious authoritarian parenting methods develop autonomy and find solidarity.
We’re taking a side quest and spending a few episodes discussing The Hunger Games series, it’s analysis of power dynamics and violence against children. We’ll be recapping each movie from the original trilogy. Please send any questions or comments to strongwilledproject @ gmail.com, and we might include it in an episode.
This is episode is Part 1 of two parts. We will post Part 2 here on our regular podcast schedule, but if you’d like to hear Part 2 sooner, you can join our patreon for $4/month and listen to the second part today, as well as other bonus content.
You can listen here or find STRONGWILLED wherever you normally get your podcasts.
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(transcript has been lightly edited for clarity)
DL: Welcome to STRONGWILLED the podcast where we talk about religious authoritarian parenting methods and help survivors develop autonomy and establish solidarity. We are doing a miniseries on the Hunger Games,
Krispin: Which feels like sort of a left field turn.
DL: No it doesn't.
Krispin: I am, on behalf of the listener, they're like where is this coming from?
DL: No, no, no, no. The listeners are 100% on board.
Krispin: They all see the same patterns that you do everywhere.
DL: Well, guess what, Krispin, I am autistic and I have often in my life been very interested in things that people are not as interested in as I am.
Krispin: Your whole life—
Tell me! Tell me!
Krispin: Is the Charlie meme with all the yarn on the pinboard.
DL: Oh yeah. From Always Sunny. Yeah. I'm always making patterns, but I mean, I felt I almost didn't want to record this podcast today because it does get tiring to be like, I'm really interested in this, and nobody else cares.
But you know what? The thing about me is you give me two days off of social media and I'm raring to go again. So here we go. I am interested and as you told me, I am not backing people into a corner and forcing them to listen to me talk about the Hunger Games. They can opt in. They can opt out.
So that makes me feel a lot better.
Krispin: Exactly. I think for people with special interests that like to info dump, this is a great format. Because you're not cornering someone at a party.
DL: No, no, no, no, no.
Krispin: Y’all can continue listening or you can wait till Krispin and DL are finished talking about the Hunger Games, and then come back.
DL: Yes. I do this podcast so I don't bother my friends. I bother you no matter what. So you're going to hear this no matter what. Now we're just recording it.
Krispin: Right, yes. Which I enjoy, for the record.
DL: Okay, great. This episode could get a little long.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Krispin told me last time— I do try and self-edit quite a bit, but maybe not quite as much. And if it needs to be two episodes, we can do that.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: So I'm going to try and keep that in mind. But I do feel embarrassed or something. Aware. Of, oh, I'm talking way too long about this thing that people aren't maybe interested in. There's my caveat.
Krispin: Also, I acknowledge to you, that also is the content you enjoy from others. Right?
DL: That's true. I love it when people let the freak flags fly and get to talk about all the elements of something. I love autistic people. Right! Like the Star
Krispin: Right! Like the Star Wars hotel video.
DL: Oh my God.
Krispin: That is like your—
DL: There's some content creators out there that I'm just like, the minutiae they get into and their big picture analysis combined is just amazing.
Krispin: That’s where you live.
DL: Yeah. That's not who I am, you know, but that's what I aspire to be. So this could get a little long. We are going to do some comments, questions. We even have a voicemail to listen to at the end of this episode. You know what the biggest feedback we got from episode one was?
Krispin: I'm afraid. Do we really have to—
DL: Well, this is what I wrote in the notes: “Krispin was wrong about everything when it comes to Appalachia.”
Krispin: Yes.
DL: Okay, so let’s just throw that out there. I was like 75% wrong. You were a hundred percent wrong.
Krispin: 100% wrong.
DL: We will get into that at the end of this episode. We apologize. It is not JD Vance's territory. Okay. That was a joke. We'll get into that at the end of the episode. How's that make you feel?
Krispin: I'm glad. Thanks y'all for, you know, weighing in.
DL: Appalachia has some real defenders, which I adore. That's very Katniss coded.
Krispin: Right. That’s so great.
DL: That was great. So we'll talk about that. I have a question for you. I felt like with the first Hunger Games book and movie, the overarching theme was about violence against children.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: And we actually have a great comment about that. Which we're going to play at the end. About how violence against children shows up in a lot of mythology.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Before we get into that, I'm wondering how you have seen violence against children be a part of the mythology of evangelicalism.
Krispin: I'm even thinking of some researchers, that I'll put in the show notes, that have talked about how violence against children was a symbol of devotion to God. Right? [Susan B. Ridgley. “When pain becomes symbolic of commitment,” 2016].
DL: Yes. Right. In evangelicalism.
Krispin: In evangelicalism.
DL: Right.
Krispin: And that makes me think of the story of Abraham and Isaac.
DL: Yes. Which we've talked about quite a few times in this podcast.
Krispin: Exactly. So this idea of offering your kid and their wellbeing up to a deity or to an authority feels very familiar here.
DL: Yes. Yes, and I'm in the throes of working on another chapter reiterating how the very specific discipline methods promoted by people like Dr. Dobson, Ted Tripp, Reb Bradley, Michael and Debbie Pearl, John MacArthur, religious authoritarian parenting methods had this sort of ritualized violence against children. Which sucks, as we know. But what is also interesting about the books is they're constantly telling the parents, you have to do this.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: If you say you love God, if you say you follow the Bible, you have to do this. So it turns into an initiation ritual, to further cement yourself into this group, plus the sign of your devotion. Which is exactly what I thought the first Hunger Games book was about.
Krispin: It’s the evangelical reaping.
DL: It's the evangelical reaping,
Krispin: I mean, reaping is a Hunger Games phrase, but it's really not that different than a lot of metaphors used in evangelicalism.
DL: Well, it's true. And you know what my favorite metaphor is?
You reap what you sow. So that is interesting, because in this second movie, Catching Fire, the totalitarian regime is going to start reaping what it has sown. So that's one of the main overarching themes of Catching Fire. But I'm curious, what do you think is the main theme of Catching Fire to you?
Krispin: I think the main theme is resistance against authoritarianism and how hard authoritarianism works when there's resistance.
DL: Okay. So those cycles of resistance.
Krispin: So you see those dynamics.
DL: Yeah. You want to hear what I think is the overarching theme?
Krispin: Yes.
DL: I think the overarching theme of Catching Fire is that there are always cracks in the totalitarian regime.
Krispin: Mm-hmm. Right.
DL: There’s always weak points. They really get off and getting people to believe there is no way to fight back, there's no way to resist. You will be punished. All your loved ones will be punished. But I think one of the main themes of this movie is no, there's always cracks. You can always find them.
Which I think is great. It's great for us to think about right now.
Krispin: But really the through line here when it comes to the Hunger Games and Evangelicalism is Colorado Springs, Colorado.
DL: You're going back to that?
Krispin: Because last time, every time you said Colorado Springs, Colorado, I thought of adventures in Odyssey, which was this kids radio show, and I thought about how Chris, the host of the show, always signed off. He would say, don't forget to write us at Adventures in Odyssey, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, Colorado 8 0 9 9 5.
DL: Yeah.
Krispin: So for those of us that listened to that when you were five years old, I hope I just triggered—
DL: Yeah. I feel like you already did that in the first episode, but now you're just making it more explicit.
Krispin: More explicit. Yes. Every time you said Colorado Springs I was like, there's a zip code that needs to come after it, so I had to go find out.
DL: That's what I was trying to tell you. I was trying to say, does it make your brain itch when you’re like, the capital is here.
Krispin: Right. The capital is Colorado Springs, Colorado, 8 0 9 9 5, which by the way. That's their address. There's no street address because they were an entire zip code.
DL: Oh my God. Is that true?
Krispin: Yeah. So you just all you had to write on a letter was Adventures in Odyssey, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, Colorado with a zip code.
DL: If I was in a phase where I wanted to be on their radar, I would totally start like a letter writing campaign where we all just send postcards being like, fuck you guys. You ruined my childhood, ruined my life. Wouldn't that be great?
Krispin: Yes. To our listeners: don't do that.
DL: Well, I mean, don't…don’t do that…I'm not saying anything. But hey, we’ve got to get into this. Now, Catching Fire, the book has a few different parts to it. The first part is sort of like the aftermath of Katniss and Peeta surviving the Hunger Games. Going back to District 12 they have to go on this victory tour six months after. So should we start there talking about that?
Krispin: Yeah. I mean, that's something that I really appreciate about Suzanne Collins, at least in these first two books slash movies, is there's these clear acts. Right?
DL: Yes, that's true.
Krispin: Yeah. Which I really appreciate.
DL: So tell me about act one.
Krispin: So Act one is, Katniss and Peeta have to go on this victory tour where they go around to all the districts and give a little speech. Now what's happening is they've all seen what just happened in the Hunger Games.
Katniss was defiant against the Capitol. And all looking to her to be this leader of a rebellion. But what we know is that Snow has told Katniss, if you position yourself as a rebel, as a leader, I will kill not just your family, but your whole district.
We will just bomb your whole district. So Katniss is in this place of trying to downplay the defiance and just say, we were just in love. We were ready to end it all because we loved each other so much and we couldn't imagine living without each other. And Snow explicitly says, you have to convince people that you are in love. That's why you did this.
DL: Yeah. So I think what's interesting, the book goes into so much more detail of what those six months in between Katniss and Peeta winning and then having to go on this victory tour, and what is happening in District 12. So obviously we know that Snow has 100% identified Katniss as a threat.
Katniss does not know what is going on in the rebellion. That's part of what the Capitol does. It isolates people, it strictly controls the media. The only media they have access to is just straight up propaganda from the Capitol. So people in District 12, they don't watch it.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: When the Hunger Games is on, all the TVs come on. You can't turn them off. You have to watch it.
But people are just so disengaged. And what's interesting is we're kind of thrown back into this whole love triangle thing, especially in the beginning of Catching Fire because Katniss comes back, you know, she's hanging out with Gale again.
Peeta is devastated. Because basically on the train coming back, Katniss was like this, that was basically on act. Me pretending to be in love with you. That was a survival tactic. And so Peeta's super bummed. And they basically don't talk to each other. Right?
Krispin: All the energy of a boy who thought a girl liked him and then she's like, actually I don't.
DL: Also they both have a bunch of trauma.
Krispin: Right. Yes.
DL: So, they're both super traumatized and everyone's like, well now you get to live in these big houses and you have food and money. You should be fine. Peeta's family's kind of like what is taking you so long to get back to normal?
Krispin: Right. And that's something that I really enjoyed about this movie and throughout the books is especially when it came out, there actually wasn't a lot of talk about trauma. Now in the psychology world and pop culture, we talk about trauma a lot.
DL: Yes.
Krispin: When these came out, there wasn't a lot of talk about trauma. There wasn't a lot of talk about flashbacks and I feel like it did a really good job of showing that with Katniss.
DL: Yeah. Also, going back to these religious authoritarian parenting books, their whole thing is that kids are resilient. Kids don't get traumatized. And I think Peta and Katniss both are really good examples of like, no, they totally do. Mm-hmm. And this impacts them the rest of their lives.
And so there's all this going on. There's some instances of Katniss and Gale kissing a little bit, but Katniss is still like, what? I am just trying to survive and keep people safe.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Plus she has this added pressure of Snow being like, if you don't do this… So Snow comes to visit her actually before the victors tour, which is six months after the Hunger Games. The victors have to go around to each district, and I think that's interesting. A halfway point for the Capitol to remind people this is coming. It keeps the terror fresh. It keeps people in submission, right?
Krispin: Yeah.
DL: And also turns the victors into this horrible symbol of the Capitol.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Which is devastating. And Katniss and Peeta, again are just like, wow, we survived. So when this six-month thing comes up, it's like, uh oh. We have not escaped this in any way, shape, or form. Especially because Snow shows up to Katniss's house and is like you have to convince me and everyone else that you're in love with Peeta because there's some rebellions happening.
Katniss is like, whoa, there's rebellions happening. I didn't do that. I didn't do that.
Krispin: Right.
DL: She is very much like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I do not want to flame the rebellion, so just tell me what to do. And he's basically like, well, you have to convince me that you're love with Peeta. Then Snow is also like, by the way, we know you kiss Gale. So it turns out there is this surveillance state happening.
There's cameras, there's all of this happening. Plus the second thing happening in District 12 is there is now an uptick in enforcing the rules of the capitol. Did that happen before or after the victory tour?
Krispin: I believe it was during. Yes, it was during, because they were trying to figure out, like Katniss is this symbol of rebellion. And this kind of fits together with, I can't remember how it all fits together, but one thing that they do to try to convince the Capitol or convince Snow and all the people that they're in love is they get engaged.
DL: Yeah. Right.
Krispin: And so Plutarch who we will talk about, the Gamemaker who's working with Snow on these authoritarian strategies is like, here's how we keep her from being a symbol of resistance.
We will switch back and forth between beatings of people and then her picking out her engagement dress. More beatings, she's picking out the cake. Just switching back and forth.
DL: Okay. Yeah. So that's part of the strategy. What Katniss and Peeta and Gale end up experiencing is this super intense police crackdown in District 12. Things like where the black market was, that all gets torched. They replace the old Peacekeeper, Cray, who was actually a really gross guy, but he kind of let things slide with this new guy, Thread, who seems to be the most violent guy ever.
Gale gets whipped horribly, just for hunting. They turn on the electrified fences, there's all this going on, and it is terrorizing people and making sure that they don't rebel. So Katniss knows that Gale would want to know more about the rebellions going on in other districts, but she's kind of afraid to tell him.
Krispin: Oh, huh.
DL: Because there's not one happening in 12. That’s the truth of it. And what they say in the books, the reason it's not happening in 12 is because there's simply not enough people, they're not a densely populated district.
Krispin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
DL: I'll have the numbers for the next episode, but I feel like it was just not that many people. But the districts with lots of people could get a sizable chunk of the population to fight back against the Peacekeepers. In a place like District 12, you would basically need everyone to fight back, or else there's no way you could win.
Krispin: right.
DL: So That's the situation we're going into,
Krispin: Which is interesting that strategy of we're going to torch the black market, we're going to punish people more strictly, we're going to have more law and order, because there is a way that that can sometimes obviously squelch rebellion. But it can also fuel it.
DL: Right! But in district 12 it does not.
Krispin: Right.
DL: I think that is such an interesting look into how this can sometimes happen if you're isolated and you don't have a lot of people, sometimes this excess of militarized police brutality can squash a rebellion.
Krispin: I think that we see that Katniss's approach is, you just do what you need to survive.
You don't make waves. You just try to figure out the system. I feel like some of that is obviously unique to Katniss, but it also feels culturally like the norm for District 12.
DL: Yes. Yeah, and I think for Katniss, by the end of this book, Catching Fire, she realizes that when Snow came to visit her in District 12 and threatened her and said, I'll kill everyone in your family if you don't convince me you're in love with Peeta and that's why you did this, that he was basically just trying to distract me right before I went on the victor's tour,
So I wouldn't see how much the rebellion was picking up steam and I would be so preoccupied and so terrified and trying to fulfill my role that I wouldn't get inspired by the rebellions happening and the cracks that we're beginning to show in the Capitol's power. So I thought that was interesting. That's what Katniss eventually comes to the realization of in the book.
Krispin: Oh, that's really interesting.
DL: So she's super distracted. They go on this tour and from the love triangle perspective, it's all sort of forced proximity now. Peeta and Katniss haven't been talking, and now they have to pretend to be in love again. Peeta finally is like, hey, I'm sorry for being butt hurt, can we just at least be friends? And she's like, great, this is great. That's exactly what I want. Because she finds Peeta very comforting, but she feels very guilty.
Krispin: Right.
DL: Basically when Gale was whipped for hunting, Katniss is like, I think I love him. And then Peeta is so sad. Because he loves her. So he is like, well then she should get to be with him, but now we're locked into this thing. So the first district they have to go to is District 11, and this is crucial. This is the first stop. Why is that so important?
Krispin: Because that's where the biggest resistance was. And because that was Katniss's ally Rue who she made a funeral for on live TV, that is where she was from. And in response to that, there was a huge uprising.
DL: Yeah. Which again, they don't really know about that yet, but for Katniss, she's like, I hate it. I hate it. So they have these prepared speeches, they have to go in the town square, everyone's assembled, and then the families of the fallen tributes are there. And if they were your ally, you're supposed to thank them. If not, I guess you sort of ignore them. But you know, you kind of uphold like, this is what the Capitol does, blah, blah, blah. But Katniss is like, I can't do this. This is Rue.
And also forgive me for not mentioning Thresh in the first episode, but Thresh saves Katniss's life. And basically it was like one for one, you know?
Krispin: Right. And Thresh is also from District 11.
DL: Yes. And then he was eventually killed. So in many respects, Thresh is the reason that Katniss survived. So they go there, Katniss just does a stilted speech.
Peeta had a speech too, but then Peeta can't handle it. And so he goes off script. And he's like, we just want to say thank you. We're going to donate one month of our winnings of food and money to the families of the fallen Tributes here in District 11.
Krispin: Which is one of those dilemma actions.
DL: Yes! He wasn't doing it on purpose. But you're exactly right.
Krispin: Right. Because either Haymitch or Effie says, is he allowed to do that? And they're like, well, he can't really take it back now. If it gets taken back, then the Capitol looks bad.
DL: Yeah. And so what I think is so interesting is that Peeta's just doing this out of the goodness of his heart. And District Eleven's a very poor district. Rue had a bunch of younger brothers and sisters.
And first of all, Katniss thinks that's the most attractive thing ever. Second of all, she then does this little speech about Rue and Thresh, humanizing these children and how horrible this whole situation was. As she's doing that, this older black man in the crowd does the three fingered whistle thing that they did in District 12.
And then everybody in the crowd does it almost like a coordinated action. As a coordinated display of solidarity with Katniss. And she's like, what? She doesn't really know what's going on. But then all of a sudden all this chaos happens, they usher her and Peeta off the stage.
Krispin: When you say chaos happens, the Capitol guards take him away. They respond with violence to this.
DL: Yeah! And they shoot him in the head!
Krispin: Oh, right. Yes.
DL: And Katniss and Peeta see that. And so they're shook.
Krispin: Right. And they're feeling like, we just made this speech that created this response that got this guy killed. Katniss especially is feeling a lot of responsibility for that.
DL: Well, and she kind of should, because she didn't tell Peeta any of the stuff about Snow, about the rebellions, about anything. And so he's just operating in the dark. He's just trying to be nice.
Krispin: Right.
DL: She tells him all this stuff, him and Haymitch, and he's just so pissed. He's like, I basically killed this guy thanks to you. You guys need to stop having these plans and stop keeping me in the dark. I can handle it, you know?
I'll be better if I know what I'm going into. So that's when everyone's sort of on the same page of like, oh shit, I think rebellions are happening. Our job is to try to keep the peace. Which they try to do. The rest of that tour.
Krispin: Right. And it's really painful to watch. Because you are seeing these people showing up to these events hoping that Katniss is going to be this icon for the resistance. And they're even yelling things like, tell us what you really think. And she's just sticking to the cards.
DL: Yeah. And she feels like she has to. Because of her sister, because of her mother, because of Gale, you know? Because of Peeta even. All these people, she's like, no, I can't be the symbol of the resistance. So she has so much pressure. She is still in survival mode and she's starting to realize this is her life from here on out.
Krispin: Right. I mean, Haymitch says that, right? I feel like Peeta and Katniss say, we’ve just got to get through this tour. And he's like, no, you are going to be this icon for the Capitol the rest of your life.
DL: Because the people so badly want her to be this other icon, she's going to have to be the capital's icon.
Krispin: Right Mm-hmm.
DL: And just silly and ridiculous and disgusting.
Krispin: And their love story is going to—every time people think about what happened in the 74th Hunger Games the Capitol is like we want them to think about how it was true love, therefore you’re going to have to be madly in love the rest of your life. For as long as people remember what happened, you have to be this presentation of a madly in love couple.
DL: Yeah. So that's why they decide to get married and get engaged on this victory tour, right? And Peeta again is devastated because he doesn't want a fake marriage. He just feels like this is the worst thing you could do.
Krispin: Right. Because of what he said in the first book: I don't want them to take away who I am. Authenticity, autonomy is top priority for Peeta.
DL: Yes, totally. So it's just such a mess. So they get back from the victory tour. Turns out they didn't really convince Snow at all. There's a few things that happen in the book. Some domesticity moments that are really nice that I'm kind of sad they took out of the movies, but we don't have to get into all of that.
So the second act begins, when they are like having Katniss trying a bunch of wedding dresses and she's wondering, did I truly convince Snow? She kind of knows she didn't. So Katniss is feeling very defeated, like the rest of my life, I will be in this position. Wondering if I'm going to do it well enough, if Snow's going to kill everyone I love.
So she's like, I want to run away. She's feeling so trapped.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Because she is. So then you want to talk about what happens when they announce the Quarter Quell. Also, what is the Quarter Quell?
Krispin: I think we should start there. So Quarter Quell. I don't actually know what the Quarter Quell is.
DL: That’s why I love asking you these questions.
Krispin: We proved last time that I thought the Hunger Games happened every four years, but it turns out that's just the Olympics. But Quarter Quell is, every 25 years they have something more significant, bigger, better, whatever,
DL: Bigger, better Hunger Games.
Krispin: Exactly. So that's this year. And so they're thinking about how can we use this year strategically, right? And so they decide instead of reaping from the current districts, we're going to take all the victors from the years and have them fight against each other to the death.
DL: Yes. So Snow makes everyone watch the Quarter Quell announcement, then pulls this card out of this deck and it's like, oh, it just so happens to say, we're going to choose from the remaining victors.
And so a Katniss is watching that. She immediately recognizes, I'm going back in the Hunger Games. She kind of has a huge freak out. Why wouldn't you? But then in the book, her internal monologue is like, great. At least I know what's going to happen. Because the waiting around to find out— she's like, so this is how they end me. Okay!
Krispin: Yeah, totally. And that shows up throughout the book. In the first book, she really wanted to stay alive to take care of Prim.
DL: You mean the movie?
Krispin: The movie. Yes. In the first movie, she wanted to stay alive to take care of Prim. Now she's like, if I die, I will no longer be a liability in my family.
DL: Exactly. Especially after what happened on the tour. Katniss feels so responsible. She feels like she's getting people killed. She feels like she's the danger. Which, eventually by the end of Catching Fire, she was like, no, that's not true at all.
What kind of life am I saving Prim for? If she doesn't get reaped, if she has kids, her kids might get reaped. This is never-ending this cycle of violence. All this focus on, it's my fault. No. It's the Capitol's fault. It's Snow's fault. I love to see that progression. But as of now, she's like, well, thank goodness this is how they get rid of me. I won't cause people suffering anymore.
She has her freak out and then she's like, okay, I’ve got to keep Peeta alive, because at least Peeta could be a spokesperson for the Revolution. Eventually she even is like, hey, I'll be a martyr, and martyrs are great for a cause.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: None of that's in the movie, I don't think. That's just in her internal world. So she goes to Haymitch. Haymitch is like, Peeta was here 45 minutes ago, begging that he gets to go into the games instead of me so that he can protect you.
Krispin: Because there it is going to be a reaping of each district from the remaining victors. Yes. So from District 12, there's one female tribute, which is Katniss, so it's just default. But is it going to be Haymitch or is it going to be Peeta?
DL: Yeah. And so Katniss is like, please, Haymitch, don't let Peeta go in. If he goes in, please focus your efforts on saving him, not me.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: But what I like about that exchange is Haymitch is just like, you know, you really don't deserve Peeta. He was here and was pleading with me, bargaining with me, you know, to save your life anyways.
Right? So I just love that, that's very Peeta coated. Peeta's very baby girl. So we love that about Peeta.
Krispin: I've been speculating on what the function of it is. Part of it is to kill Katniss. But there's also something about, it seems to me like all these victors are liabilities, because they hold some cultural power. And if the revolution happens and they start to think about, like, yeah, it was really shitty that I had to go through this. Then they could potentially become icons as well. I don't know if that fits or not.
DL: No, I think it does. When I think of the victors, I think of people who, they're being told, you won. Now you get to be rich and be a part of the Capitol. By the way, you mentioned something in our first episode, but the Capitol, their children do not get reaped. They're not like District One. They're completely separate. None of their kids have to worry about this.
Does that make sense?
Krispin: Yes. I didn't know that.
DL: So it's almost like now you're a part of the Capitol class. But that's not true at all.
Krispin: Which, even that idea of like, Katniss survived, is going on this victory tour, but has all these PTSD flashbacks, the message there clearly is—I think Haymitch says something like that: There are survivors. There are no winners.
DL: Yes.
Krispin: And I think even though we, we see that the victors are embedded in the Capitol, Snow knows that's true for all of them. They are not victors, they're survivors. And they could turn in a revolution.
DL: Yes. And so we see how again, capitulation or even winning in the authoritarian regime does not keep you safe. And actually the authoritarian power will remind you and remind the entire population of that to continue to terrorize. So that's what this Quarter Quell is about.
Now, what's so fascinating is this is more of the ripple effects of the dilemma actions that Katniss and Peeta did. Now Snow is having to respond by punishing them and killing them in front of everyone.
Krispin: Mm-hmm.
DL: Again, he thinks it'll sort of terrify people, like all the wedding dress imagery, like that'll actually make it kind of more sad and more terrifying and cement the power of the Capitol even more into this. Plus the districts will be like, well, at least it's not kids this year. And that's what Snow is betting on and Plutarch Heavensbee the new Gamesmaker.
Krispin: I love whenever Snow says his name, Heavensbee, I feel like we're in a Jane Austen movie all of a sudden.
DL: It's great! Heavensbee.
Krispin: Heavensbee.
DL: And I love seeing Philip Seymour Hoffman as Plutarch. So he's like, yes, this will totally get rid of the Mocking J problem, which is Katniss becoming this symbol of a huge, all district wide led rebellion against Capitol.
So. Peeta. You know what he does? He is like, listen buds. We're going back in the game so we’ve got to train. So he becomes this bizarre CrossFit trainer, he dumps all of Hamish's alcohol, forces Katniss to get strong. They are exercising all day, every day. He gets Katniss's mom to do this high calorie diet, so they bulk up. And he’s like, we're going to win. Katniss is like, where's my baby girl? Like where's peanut? And he's just like no affection, he is all in on this.
He's also really big into studying all the games and all the victors and figuring out strategy. Haymitch is like, I have a bunch of friends, because he's known these people forever. They get to the Capitol, they start meeting the victors. I love this part.
Krispin: Wait, before we go there. I want to talk about another shift that happens. On the train. So they're on the train into the Capitol. So I think this fits like plot line wise. And Effie who has been just the spokesperson for the Capitol the whole time is just like, this is not fair.
DL: We start to see the cracks in the narrative thanks to Effie.
Krispin: Right. So Effie who has been all Capitol all the time, all propaganda, you see her really sad. And so Katniss has her Mocking J pin. Effie has something gold, right?
DL: Her hair. She dies her hair gold.
Krispin: Yes. Her hair is gold, and then she looks at Haymitch and Peeta and she's like, we need to get the boys something gold.
DL: We need to get the boys something gold!
Krispin: Like that's her big resistance, right? And it reminds me so much of, we’ve been going to some protests lately, and we're seeing these boomers.
DL: I love this, do it.
Krispin: Boomers that are like, we're going to show up and wear matching t-shirts. Like, we're going to join the resistance. We all need something that kind of looks the same, right? Or like, I'm going to have this signal and you're—it's like Effie, right? Like you're really, really late to joining the resistance. But it's also cute.
DL: It's cute. Some of the protests I've been to have all these older white folks with signs like, “I ‘m missing pickleball for this.” Like, “Get our democracy back on track.”
Thanks for bringing this up, because in the books, it's fascinating to see Katniss struggle with people from the Capitol, especially her stylist.
Of course, we know Cinna, but then there's these three other people that come to District 12 a few times to help with the fittings for the wedding dress, to get her ready for the reaping, getting her ready for the victory tour, and then they have to help her get ready for the Quarter Quell.
And even before the Quarter Quell's announced when they're helping her get ready, Katniss just has this moment with her stylist, she's just like, these people, I want to hate them. They’re so silly, they’re obsessed with aesthetics. They don't understand my life and my inner world.
But then they're asking her mom, can you show us how you did that braid? Katniss's iconic braid? And they're so into it, so respectful. And Katniss is like, huh, what would I have been like if I had been born at the Capitol? There's no telling. I probably would have been just like them if I was born into that. So I’m trying to view them as a human.
Then when the Quarter Quell's announced they get to the Capitol. Her stylists are there, have to prepare her. They are a wreck, similar to Effie. They can't stop sobbing. They can't stop talking about how awful they feel, which annoys Katniss. She's like, okay! I am sorry you feel so depressed. Imagine how I feel.
But it is such a good picture of the cracks of these incredibly brainwashed people, who are like, oh no, this is not okay. This is really sad. This is not good. And now that becomes a strategy for people. Which, that's the thing I'm most excited to talk about this movie and this book is what the victors do with the Capitol people before they go into the games. To me, this is the most important part.
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