Yes, I’m totally going through a second adolescence! I’ve just started coming out as bi, my style of dress is changing and I don’t even know how it’s happening. Also, I’m so glad you brought up the Milgram obedience experiment. I’ve been thinking about it as I’ve been reading other issues of your newsletter. I remember first learning about it when I was 18 and having the very scary realisation that I would definitely shock the actor all the way if someone in a lab coat told me to.
I couldn't believe that there was explicit research done on foreclosure and authoritarianism.... usually, we're putting some pieces together, but someone had already done that work!
The concept of foreclosure is new to me and I love having that language - thank you Marcia!
As a teenager I felt I had so much choice- at this point my parents had little to no rules for me. In hindsight, I feel like I was so thoroughly programmed by this point, that I didn’t need the continued high structure to fulfill my parents desires. Differentiation was sooooo tied up with threat and pain from the earlier years that my teenage self couched any whiff of it as sinful rebellion. I did push the edges a little bit to try to hold autonomy, but it was false choice- in a very narrow window of “good/righteous” behavior. I was so masked, from such a young age. By the time I was in adolescence, I didn’t really know there was, or could be, a self underneath to explore.
I deeply resonate with the concept of second adolescence. Differentiation has felt both liberating and excruciating for me. A decades long process of feeling safe enough to unmask, bit by bit. There is so much grief in being with the cost and sitting in “what could have been”, if my environment promoted autonomy. Discovering the me underneath feels like the only sturdy path to authentic belonging. Those glimmers feel so so good and I’m trying to stay with them and take them in.
This topic feels really poignant to me right now- I went to pride this weekend, for the first time. I cried through the entire parade, on the drive home, and processing after. I could feel the collective healing in such a beautiful way. Surviving childhood sexual trauma, and purity culture trauma, caused me to slam the door shut on desire and sexuality. Exploring queer identity feels so healing and so sacred to me right now, even if I am a few decades late.
I resonate so much with this comment . . . and this is why we wanted to make sure we talked about adolescence during pride month because it is all connected. I'm so glad you were able to go to Pride and find ways to connect with yourself -- the glimmers -- and thank you so much for sharing about that here!
I got the Mariah Carey "Hero" single cassette as a middle schooler as my first secular music acquisition. I loved the song Hero. The B side was Everything Fades Away. Which when my mom heard it, the day I bought it, she said it was not true, that God doesn't fade away. Thanks... I didn't write it, I didn't put it on the cassette, I've only heard it once ever, but it's wrong, you're wrong if you like it, and God is right. Not "It's pretty music, what do you think it means?" or anything like that. Just disapproval.
That's basically the response I got for most secular music & media I consumed or wanted to. These are lies therefore not worth the time of day. Doesn't explicitly mention Jesus as the reason/hope/whatever, so nope. I've heard of people talking with their kids about the media they consume, like discussing lyrics or why people like certain things. I didn't get that, I just got told that they didn't approve of it. So it took me decades to share my taste in things with them again.
I was allowed to watch things like Full House but some shows like My Two Dads had just a bit too much (very mild) cussing so that was frowned upon. You Can't Do That On Television was my absolute favorite and somehow I got away with watching that right up to a point. After which I just watched it when they weren't around.
Not me reading this and realizing that the first autonomous decision I made....and the only one until I was in my 20s...was listening to Rush Limbaugh 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
The number of cds broken in my youth group after some "revival" where teens would commit to only listen to Christian music is too many to count! Too be clear, I never broke any because I knew just would eventually listen to it again. And the number of James Taylor, 90's country, Kenny Roger's, and Eagles cds from my parents would never have them keeping secular music from us.
Oh my goodness, we had a chapel speaker in college & afterwards so many people got rid of tapes & CDs. In addition to all my secular vocal music, I even got rid of all my jazz & classical music because it didn't specifically talk about Jesus. I didn't even give it away - literally put it in a bag & threw it in the dumpster. And tried to feel holy about it. To this day I will come across something online and think about if I used to own it or not.
And now I'm thinking if I want to keep my Christian music or books/Bibles. But I flit between interests so quickly I might swing around again to wanting to hear or read them ('research'), plus I know how much I regretted that occasion in college, so I'm just holding onto it all for now.
I was only allowed to listen to christian music growing up until High School. My mom would sing to Sandy Patty all of the time! We had Psalty, Charity Church Mouse and Antsillvania to listen to over and over! I think I still know those all by heart.
My dad had all of the Christian Rock albums from the 80's and 90's as well. I grew up on Stryper, the Rez Band and Steve Taylor. In High school my dad found DC Talk and got all excited for us kids to have something we might be interested in. It was all the same messages but this time it was younger people closer to our age telling us those things.
I did have a few albums that were not christian and felt a little sense of autonomy but definitely guilted because of it. I remember having madonna's cd Take A Bow and my mom having a very serious conversation with me about it. She was so concerned that I was going to be influenced by her overt sexual style. the only station on the radio we could all listen to besides christian was the oldies. Somehow that was ok but when I think of the lyrics there was still a lot of "worldly" messages in them so it is funny those were allowed.
My parents were not as controlling in High School I think because they had three teenagers at one time and we were all pushing the limits. My mom just prayed for HOURS and I think at that point instead of forcing their ideas on us they just sat back and trusted God to take care of us. I am shocked at that when I look back because they were both so controlling when I was younger. I think that was really important for me at the time for them to back off. I think I would have been way more messed up if I hadn't had the opportunity to have some autonomy.
Thank you so much for all of this. The explanation of foreclosure, the binary options, the having to believe but given the illusion of choice, the rebelling against the culture as a faux individuation…are all so true for me and so helpful to have explained so clearly.
It was hard to watch the video because it brought up a lot of feelings and experiences I had over and over in those teen spaces.
Strong willed has been a big factor in me grieving, raging, and reclaiming my teen self.
I got my first secular album in 8th grade. It was Footloose. I bought it with my non-Christian (or at least not the right Christian) best friend who lived down the hill. She bought Flashdance. I liked Flashdance a lot better, but Footloose felt safer. I was allowed to keep the album, but, ultimately, not the friend/bad influence.
My dad had me stand on the couch. He told me to pull him up from the ground to the couch. I couldn't. He said that represented me with my friends. He preached that I was, to quote Matthew 7:6, 'throwing my pearls before swine.'
I believed, until recently, that my pulling away from my friends was as a sign of superiority and self-confidence - that it was my choice.
Yes, I’m totally going through a second adolescence! I’ve just started coming out as bi, my style of dress is changing and I don’t even know how it’s happening. Also, I’m so glad you brought up the Milgram obedience experiment. I’ve been thinking about it as I’ve been reading other issues of your newsletter. I remember first learning about it when I was 18 and having the very scary realisation that I would definitely shock the actor all the way if someone in a lab coat told me to.
I couldn't believe that there was explicit research done on foreclosure and authoritarianism.... usually, we're putting some pieces together, but someone had already done that work!
also, yay for a second adolescence!
The concept of foreclosure is new to me and I love having that language - thank you Marcia!
As a teenager I felt I had so much choice- at this point my parents had little to no rules for me. In hindsight, I feel like I was so thoroughly programmed by this point, that I didn’t need the continued high structure to fulfill my parents desires. Differentiation was sooooo tied up with threat and pain from the earlier years that my teenage self couched any whiff of it as sinful rebellion. I did push the edges a little bit to try to hold autonomy, but it was false choice- in a very narrow window of “good/righteous” behavior. I was so masked, from such a young age. By the time I was in adolescence, I didn’t really know there was, or could be, a self underneath to explore.
I deeply resonate with the concept of second adolescence. Differentiation has felt both liberating and excruciating for me. A decades long process of feeling safe enough to unmask, bit by bit. There is so much grief in being with the cost and sitting in “what could have been”, if my environment promoted autonomy. Discovering the me underneath feels like the only sturdy path to authentic belonging. Those glimmers feel so so good and I’m trying to stay with them and take them in.
This topic feels really poignant to me right now- I went to pride this weekend, for the first time. I cried through the entire parade, on the drive home, and processing after. I could feel the collective healing in such a beautiful way. Surviving childhood sexual trauma, and purity culture trauma, caused me to slam the door shut on desire and sexuality. Exploring queer identity feels so healing and so sacred to me right now, even if I am a few decades late.
I resonate so much with this comment . . . and this is why we wanted to make sure we talked about adolescence during pride month because it is all connected. I'm so glad you were able to go to Pride and find ways to connect with yourself -- the glimmers -- and thank you so much for sharing about that here!
I got the Mariah Carey "Hero" single cassette as a middle schooler as my first secular music acquisition. I loved the song Hero. The B side was Everything Fades Away. Which when my mom heard it, the day I bought it, she said it was not true, that God doesn't fade away. Thanks... I didn't write it, I didn't put it on the cassette, I've only heard it once ever, but it's wrong, you're wrong if you like it, and God is right. Not "It's pretty music, what do you think it means?" or anything like that. Just disapproval.
That's basically the response I got for most secular music & media I consumed or wanted to. These are lies therefore not worth the time of day. Doesn't explicitly mention Jesus as the reason/hope/whatever, so nope. I've heard of people talking with their kids about the media they consume, like discussing lyrics or why people like certain things. I didn't get that, I just got told that they didn't approve of it. So it took me decades to share my taste in things with them again.
I was allowed to watch things like Full House but some shows like My Two Dads had just a bit too much (very mild) cussing so that was frowned upon. You Can't Do That On Television was my absolute favorite and somehow I got away with watching that right up to a point. After which I just watched it when they weren't around.
Not me reading this and realizing that the first autonomous decision I made....and the only one until I was in my 20s...was listening to Rush Limbaugh 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
The number of cds broken in my youth group after some "revival" where teens would commit to only listen to Christian music is too many to count! Too be clear, I never broke any because I knew just would eventually listen to it again. And the number of James Taylor, 90's country, Kenny Roger's, and Eagles cds from my parents would never have them keeping secular music from us.
Oh my goodness, we had a chapel speaker in college & afterwards so many people got rid of tapes & CDs. In addition to all my secular vocal music, I even got rid of all my jazz & classical music because it didn't specifically talk about Jesus. I didn't even give it away - literally put it in a bag & threw it in the dumpster. And tried to feel holy about it. To this day I will come across something online and think about if I used to own it or not.
And now I'm thinking if I want to keep my Christian music or books/Bibles. But I flit between interests so quickly I might swing around again to wanting to hear or read them ('research'), plus I know how much I regretted that occasion in college, so I'm just holding onto it all for now.
oh my gosh, I remember those conversations.... if it doesn't speak specifically about music, it's not good enough!
I was only allowed to listen to christian music growing up until High School. My mom would sing to Sandy Patty all of the time! We had Psalty, Charity Church Mouse and Antsillvania to listen to over and over! I think I still know those all by heart.
My dad had all of the Christian Rock albums from the 80's and 90's as well. I grew up on Stryper, the Rez Band and Steve Taylor. In High school my dad found DC Talk and got all excited for us kids to have something we might be interested in. It was all the same messages but this time it was younger people closer to our age telling us those things.
I did have a few albums that were not christian and felt a little sense of autonomy but definitely guilted because of it. I remember having madonna's cd Take A Bow and my mom having a very serious conversation with me about it. She was so concerned that I was going to be influenced by her overt sexual style. the only station on the radio we could all listen to besides christian was the oldies. Somehow that was ok but when I think of the lyrics there was still a lot of "worldly" messages in them so it is funny those were allowed.
My parents were not as controlling in High School I think because they had three teenagers at one time and we were all pushing the limits. My mom just prayed for HOURS and I think at that point instead of forcing their ideas on us they just sat back and trusted God to take care of us. I am shocked at that when I look back because they were both so controlling when I was younger. I think that was really important for me at the time for them to back off. I think I would have been way more messed up if I hadn't had the opportunity to have some autonomy.
I remember the serious talks about media. For me, it was when we watched a rom-com, and my mom was very concerned about the messages about sex in them
Thank you so much for all of this. The explanation of foreclosure, the binary options, the having to believe but given the illusion of choice, the rebelling against the culture as a faux individuation…are all so true for me and so helpful to have explained so clearly.
It was hard to watch the video because it brought up a lot of feelings and experiences I had over and over in those teen spaces.
Strong willed has been a big factor in me grieving, raging, and reclaiming my teen self.
I got my first secular album in 8th grade. It was Footloose. I bought it with my non-Christian (or at least not the right Christian) best friend who lived down the hill. She bought Flashdance. I liked Flashdance a lot better, but Footloose felt safer. I was allowed to keep the album, but, ultimately, not the friend/bad influence.
My dad had me stand on the couch. He told me to pull him up from the ground to the couch. I couldn't. He said that represented me with my friends. He preached that I was, to quote Matthew 7:6, 'throwing my pearls before swine.'
I believed, until recently, that my pulling away from my friends was as a sign of superiority and self-confidence - that it was my choice.
Learning about the concept of Foreclosure is blowing my mind. Definitely going to be thinking on all this over the coming days.